bluelady-Host - When the pictures of the Jewish concentration camps were seen by Americans in 1945, we were horrified at the sight and the tales of the survivors. We could not believe what happened there could ever happen. But it did happen and not just during WWII. It happened right here in our country and is part of our history, in both the North and South.
newyawk - Hmm, for anyone who has not been in a discussion before. Bluelady is hosting a thingy on (H)Elmira. Please direct any comments, not related to the discussion, on PM. Thank you
bluelady-Host - My presentation this evening will be on one of those places that was famous for the deprivation of the basic needs of any human being. I want to tell the story of the people who had to live in those conditions and also those who made those conditions happen
bluelady-Host - Thank you NY!
bluelady-Host - What I have to say is based on the interpretation of what I read. If you know things are not factual, please feel free to jump in! I do not want to place blame or make excuses for this episode of our history; I just want to tell the story to keep the debate open. I will not give my opinions unless asked but suffice it to say that they are not as one sided as they used to be.
bluelady-Host - With all of that intro taken care of, I will continue!
Addison Hart - Great intro, Bluelady.
bluelady-Host - My inspiration for this came as I was driving by the Confederate cemetery at Elmira. I saw not one extra ornament or decoration but hundreds of white headstones all in order. They seemed not to be remembered, these Southern boys on northern soil. Their story needs to be heard. Their story takes place between 1864 and 1865 in a northern city called Elmira. The southerners forced to be there simply remember it as HELMIRA
bluelady-Host - This last part you probably have memorized!
bluelady-Host - Elmira is a city in south central New York, about 6 miles from the Pennsylvania border. At the beginning of the war, Elmira was a depot for sending New York troops to the center of the war. There were 3 barracks for the recruits heading off to the war. As early as June of 1862 Elmira was mentioned as a place to keep prisoners. It wasn’t until May of 1864 that barracks number 3, which was empty most of the time, was transformed to a prisoner of war camp.
bluelady-Host - As a sign of things to come in the way of bad communication, Lt. Col. Seth Eastman, Commandant of Elmira, was told by Col. William Hoffman, the Federal Commissary-General of Prisoners to prepare for 10,000 prisoners. Eastman insisted he had room for only 5,000. Washington (Hoffman) either wasn’t listening or just ignored Eastman and kept with the 10,000 figure. Unfortunately, Eastman kept to his figure and only prepared for 5,000. The camp was declared "ready" for prisoners on June 30, 1864.
bluelady-Host - Did I lose anyone yet?
bluelady-Host - Another communication problem had to do with dealing with the pond that was part of the camp. A July 14 inspection of the camp noted "drainage problems" of waste materials in the pond. The pond, called Foster’s Pond, was a stagnant pool of water that came in from the river but had no way of leaving. I want you all to remember that this was first mentioned to Washington authorities in July.
newyawk - bluelady did they cover Foster Pond up?
Addison Hart - Exactly, Bluelady, and I remember one soldier recalling a fellow prison actually being forced to drink from Foster Pond.
bluelady-Host - I was trying to locate that. But I couldn't find it. The map I have makes it look like part of the river now.
KellTx - The pond would be a convenient threat to be used on the prisoners.
PvtBigelow - Bluelady i understand that the prison at Andersonville was the worst in the war.......is this true or is Elmira worse?
bluelady-Host - I was looking for that story Addison, and never found it.
Tecumseh - Kell...why a threat?
bluelady-Host - Pvt, my opinion is that they were both as bad. I think Andersonville gets it because of the sheer numbers of people involved.
Addison Hart - Bigelow-- Well, I myself think that Elmira was. More people died there.
bluelady-Host - Many sources that I used only mentioned the pond as the source of stink and disease.
Tecumseh - BL...is AH rght? Did more die at BL...I thught you just said the numbers were greater at Andersonville?
PvtBigelow - Ok i was just trying to get a perspective.....sorry for interrupting.
KellTx - Tecumseh, if you ran a prison and was open to the use of any form of punishment to use on the prisoners, this could be a source.
newyawk - If I can add my two cents....I think Elmira was worse. From what I have read the commandant withheld supplies for the prisoners and sold them for money to give himself. Also kept supplies that civilians gave out of the hands of the POW's. Sorry blurelady if I kind of well interrupted.
bluelady-Host - Also in this same report there was mention of the need for tents better suited for harsh elements for 3 to 5,000 more prisoners, blankets and proper food. The need for a prison hospital with laundry and kitchen was mentioned also.
bluelady-Host - Right Addison I think also you meant that the bigger percent of prisoners died and not more.
Addison Hart - Elmira should never have been a prison, as it hadn't the supplies.
KellTx - bluelady, was Elmira the name of the town the prison was in, or the name of the prison? Perhaps I missed that part.
bluelady-Host - On July 14, 1864 a train from the Port Jervis area loaded with prisoners and guards was heading towards Elmira The details of this wreck will be told at a latter time. The significance to the conditions at Elmira were that the wounded from the wreck overtaxed the already strained medical staff of the prison. Since there was only one available Dr., and he was not a military Dr., these men were treated as fast as possible.
bluelady-Host - Elmira is the name of the city.
bluelady-Host - I don't think they would have had the problem of getting supplies for a number of rail roads went to Elmira.
bluelady-Host - Hello to all who just came in and welcome to Helmira!
Addison Hart - Witheld the supplies then??
KellTx - The doctors not trained in battlefield medicine probably did alot of chop-shop and perhaps had more deaths from disease than anything else.
bluelady-Host - My opinion is that enought weren't ordered due to incompentency
bluelady-Host - I'll be getting to that Kelltx
Tecumseh - BL...what was the staff level of tyhe hospital at Elmira?
bluelady-Host - Camp life continued and more prisoners came and still more died during the next month. The middle of August brought no changes in living quarters and nothing done about the pond. Once again Seth Eastman writes to Washington about the conditions of Elmira. He was writing again that the pond was leaving a stench that was "offensive" and "may occasion sickness." The odors that occurred there were from "daily accumulation."
bluelady-Host - The surgeon from September to December had 5 assistants
ks-Moderator - chop-shop? Meaning amputation?
Tecumseh - How many did Andersonville have?
KellTx - Could Eastman have moved the prison?
bluelady-Host - or in this case hit and miss doctoring. The doctor at the opening of the camp was from Elmira. He tried the best he could to keep up with the added sickness that came with the camp.
bluelady-Host - Probably not Kelltx. This particular barrackes was ordered from Washington.
shari - Cump, I don't know how many docs or assistants were at Andersonville, but I do know that the ratio of doctors to patients was 1:200...verra bad odds, I'd say.
bluelady-Host - Scurvy was prevalent due to the lack of fresh vegetables in the prisoners’ diet. Dr. Sanger writes Washington for a diet change but doesn’t get anywhere. Col. Eastman writes later in August once again about the problem of quarters for the prisoners and not enough space to feed 10,000 prisoners and the pond problem was still not addressed.
Tecumseh - That is the information I have as well Shari.
Addison Hart - Scurvy! Ick, nasty stuff. Led Captain Cook to thrusting limes in the mouths of his men.
Tecumseh - BL...but I heard that the prisoners had their own contraband vegatable stand...can you confirm or deny this?
bluelady-Host - Cump, I know sutlers were there and sometimes the prisoners could use money to buy extras.
bluelady-Host - the money was put on account so no cash was passed.
Tecumseh - sutlers?
bluelady-Host - September just brought a terse letter from Col Hoffman stating that "..as long as the prisoners are fed by 11 am breakfast and 6 PM supper then that is all that is necessary. Nothing more will be done about the mess and additional housing will not be built. Hospital to be built as cheaply as possible." By the end of September, Col Seth Eastman was ill and replaced by Col Benjamin Tracy as commander of Elmira Prison camp.
bluelady-Host - Barracks 3 was only part of the depot. there were 3 other barracks within the city that sent union recruts off to the war.
Addison Hart - How large was the garrison at Elmira?
bluelady-Host - That I am not sure Addison. I know the number kept changing due to being shipped out and drafted etc
bluelady-Host - That also meant the guards kept changing as well.
Yankee Woman - Since Mark Twain was such a public figure and lived in Elmira, did he ever say anything?
Addison Hart - Ah, I see, thanks Bluelady.
bluelady-Host - A Prisoner exchange was done in October for invalid prisoners. It was particularly scandalous for Elmira because only invalid prisoners who were healthy enough to make the trip were supposed to be taken. This created a PR problem for the Union because reports were coming back that the prisoners were being treated well. Much "Buck Passing" was done to place blame for this episode
newyawk - YW, I dont'' believe Twain lived in Elmira until his later years.
bluelady-Host - I don't think Twain came to elmira until well after the war. If he said anything I never heard about it.
bluelady-Host - Also, at this time Col. Hoffman finally told Col. Tracy to build the wooden shelters to replace tents. October was cold and early snows were reported. The pond was still a problem and finally by the end of October Col. Tracy was given the order to build drainage for the pond. The work was done by December.
Addison Hart - Twain wasn't in Elmira till long after the war. He spent the war in Missouri and Arkansas with some Partisan Confederates.
Yankee Woman - His wife's family lived there. I visited his study. he wrote some of his works there. He talked to Grant about writing his memoirs before Grant died in the Adirondacks.
bluelady-Host - Twain was a real neutral, hehe actually helped save Grant from the poorhouse much later!
newyawk - YW, Twain published Grant's memoirs.
bluelady-Host - In November, a detailed report from Dr. Sanger reached Washington. Beurocracy at its "best". He basically said that it was necessary for the prisoners to have a better diet and needed care and Col. Tracy was doing everything to counter his efforts. Col. Tracy gave Dr. Sanger NO DIRECT CONTACT WITH HIM making unnecessary delays for medical supplies. An inspection in the middle of November concurred with Dr. Sanger’s report.
Addison Hart - Monstrous!
bluelady-Host - Maj. Edwin Sanger became camp surgeon on August 8, 1864. He was able to select 5 assistants. Sanger was considered a brute. He would take some of the medicinal whiskey for himself. His bedside manner must have been less that desirable. He either had it "in" for Col. Tracy or the col. had it "in" for him. He did not get along with many of his fellow officers and the people he worked with. He was also said to be vain and very touchy about dealing with subordinate officers. He was quoted in many sources as saying that he was responsible for more Confederate deaths than some in the field. At the same time he was responsible for Washington finally noticing the deplorable conditions during October and November.
bluelady-Host - The winter of 1864 and 1865 was one of the coldest on record. The clothing the prisoners had were for the most part what they came to camp with. For the Confederate soldier that meant the clothing was in ragged shape and not meant for cold weather. By this stage of the war, many Confederate soldiers also didn’t have shoes. Clothing and blankets were distributed but never enough. Army regulation allowed only for the distribution of gray clothing to prisoners stifling civilian attempts to help. Some civilians would try to send in clothing to the prisoners. Many of these items were not distributed and were burned because they were not gray.
bluelady-Host - This episode is why I think the prison camps were run by incompitent people.
Addison Hart - This is going great, Bluelady!
bluelady-Host - They just lacked imagination and wouldn't make a move without permission in triplicate!
bluelady-Host - Thanks Addison!
newyawk - Well bluelady, if they stepped out of line at all, it is possible that they woud be courtmartialled.
bluelady-Host - Disease was the biggest killer at Elmira, as well as the war. Smallpox, typhoid, chronic diarrhea and pneumonia were the biggest killers. Scurvy was also prevalent during most of the time the camp was in existance. A diet of mostly bread and water was given at the prison, some meat and very few vegetables. The summer of 1864 was quite dry in the Elmira area so produce was not in abundant supply, and the quality of available meat was affected by the drought as well.
bluelady-Host - Could be NY but I have seen instances in battle where officers got away with worse things than passing out clothes!
bluelady-Host - Disease was the biggest killer at Elmira, as well as the war. Smallpox, typhoid, chronic diarrhea and pneumonia were the biggest killers. Scurvy was also prevalent during most of the time the camp was in existance. A diet of mostly bread and water was given at the prison, some meat and very few vegetables. The summer of 1864 was quite dry in the Elmira area so produce was not in abundant supply, and the quality of available meat was affected by the drought as well.
Addison Hart - Musta been an awful place!
bluelady-Host - I would not like to "live" in any POW camp!
Yankee Woman - Did those diseases affect the citizens of the town?
bluelady-Host - One thing I haven't mention is that most of the prisoners came to Elmira from point Lookout. so they have been prisoners for quite a while.
Addison Hart - I wouldn't like to die in any POW Camp!
Addison Hart - Point Lookout was, overall, a nicer place than Elmira.
bluelady-Host - YW, I think Smallpox was in the town and possibly typhoid. I think the diarrea was from change in diet and the fact that in elmira they had plenty of good water to drink. Most who came from point lookout said the water in elmira was better than there
Tecumseh - The water in the prison was better BL?
bluelady-Host - Dr. Sanger left under a cloud of mystery in December. Some say he resigned but there is nothing in the record about his resigning or being disciplined. Many of those he worked with thought he should have been disciplined. When he left the reports to Washington also stopped. Drainage of the pond as well as the coming of spring, helped improve the health of the prisoners.
bluelady-Host - Every prisoner account that I read from Elmira said that the water from the wells there was very good and there was plenty of it.
Tecumseh - So eforts to improve the prison were made BL?
Yankee Woman - So the problem with bad water was from the pond only, not the wells, right?
bluelady-Host - Efforts were made. And I think the govt was reacting insted of planning ahead.
newyawk - Well since the Susquehana River flows right through Elmira(the head waters are in my backyard) there was plenty of good water.
bluelady-Host - From what I read that is correct, YW
bluelady-Host - The Susquehana does't go near Elmira. The Chemung does
newyawk - bluelady, same difference LOL
bluelady-Host - In February another prisoner exchange occurred with about the same results. Col. Tracy blamed the rail road contractors for the lack of water, food and light for the journey south. Col Tracy was also quoted as saying "It would take a strong man to survive a rail road journey of 41 hours without heat, light or water." And Dr. Sanger was the mean one?
Addison Hart - NY-- Good grief! The headwaters of the Susquehanna are your backyard! Woah! Wonder what happens when you got your perfect storm coming up...
bluelady-Host - LOL NY! The Susquehana goes by Waverly toward Binghamton!
newyawk - Yes I know bluelady LOL, I was thinking of Binghamton
Basecat - Evening all...and my apologies to Blue Lady for missing most of the talk.
bluelady-Host - Hi Basecat! and sure you were NY!
Tecumseh - missing a good one basecat!
bluelady-Host - I'm just glad you are here now!!!
newyawk - Hey it's kind of hard to remember with all the rivers Blue. Let's see the Susquehana....Calahan Brook, Chenango, then Susquehana oh sorry I'm going off topic..
bluelady-Host - In March, the banks of the Chemung river flowed over and flooded the prison camp. Those in the hospitals were in the most danger and were moved with no loss of life from the smallpox wards and little loss from the other wards and no escapes.
bluelady-Host - Ok NY you DO know your geography!
bluelady-Host - The danger was great for the hospitals because they were right next to the river!
bluelady-Host - April saw the surrender of Lee’s army and a vast improvement in the conditions of the camp. Of course by this time some of the prisoners were being sent home and the weather was making living conditions for those who remained more tolerable. September of 1865 saw the last prisoner leave the camp.
Addison Hart - Going great Bluelady!
Yankee Woman - Are there any prisoner diaries from Elmira like exist from Andersonville?
newyawk - bluelady what caused the horrific casualties?
Tecumseh - BL…that was fantastic…fabulous job. One question…I waited until you were done, I did not wish to slow down the presentation further - I was wondering, if Andersonville held 45,000 prisoners, 30 percent of whom died in captivity, and Elmira held 12,122, about 2900 of whom died (roughly 25%), this means Andersonville had the higher actual number of deaths as well as percentage…how can you say Elmira, as totally horrible as it was, was worse?
Tecumseh - This goes back to something said near the beggining.
Basecat - Bluelady...Why so late after the end of the war to release the last prisoner...?
bluelady-Host - Cump, I'm not done yet but some accounts have Elmira's death rate at about 35%
lvTraveller - *claps* she isnt done... shhhh lol
Addison Hart - Cump-- Where do you get those Statistics?
bluelady-Host - There is more! Don't go away!!!
bluelady-Host - In reading written accounts from those who were prisoners there, many discrepancies regarding treatment and conditions were found. Some thought they were treated all right. Others thought some of the guards and officers were bad. A Major Beall and Captain William Peck were said to be especially cruel. Col. Moore, Major Colt and Captain Munger were praised by the prisoners as being most kind and many prisoners held a deep affection for these men.
Tecumseh - Okay thanks...mine say 12,199 and 2917 (25%)- let me know if you gt diff figurs!
bluelady-Host - Basecat, He was in the hospital and probably too sick to leave until then.
Tecumseh - Okay! Not leaving! LOL...
Basecat - BlueLady...Thanks...figured it had to be a medical problem.
bluelady-Host - Most said they were treated well in the hospital. Most didn’t blame their care-givers for the lack of clothing. They blamed the contractors and even some of the other prisoners. "Trusties" weren’t trustworthy and much ration "flanking" was done. Flanking was a process of getting back in another line to get more to eat after you were already served.
bluelady-Host - Many said rats were sold to eat but none claimed to have been consumers. Many gave the account of a dog being roasted and eaten and all told the same story of the punishment for those who ate the dog. They agreed on 3 things though: the drinking water was good, the weather conditions were terrible and there was not enough to eat.
bluelady-Host - The following will be a detailed account of some of the more memorable events that occurred involving the prison camp. One of those events was briefly mentioned earlier. This was the Sholoah train wreck.
bluelady-Host - The train was assigned as an "extra" behind a scheduled train. The scheduled train had warning signals giving Engine 171 the right of way. Unfortunately, it arrived at Port Jervis about 4 hrs behind schedule. Engine 171 left Port Jervis and was on a single track heading to Lackawaxen Junction.
bluelady-Host - At the junction a telegraph operator mistakenly told the operators of engine 237 that the way was clear. On went the two trains now heading to disaster. The accident happened on a blind curve called King and Fuller’s cut. The injured and dead were taken care of during the next few hours. Confederate dead were buried in a common grave near the cut.
bluelady-Host - Some of the dead were so mangled they could not be identified. In 1911 the prisoners were disinterred and placed in graves at Woodlawn Cemetery in Elmira. A marker was placed in the cemetery in memory of those from both sides who lost their lives in the Sholoah train wreck. Those who went on their way to the camp and were wounded went straight to the camp hospital, already over crowded.
zoe - How many persons were killed, or is that one of those unknown things?
bluelady-Host - A second memorable event occurred on October 7, 1864. This event was the great tunnel escape.
Basecat - BlueLady...When did the wreck occur??? and sorry if this was asked already.
bluelady-Host - There were 48 prisoners killed and 17 guards and it happened on July 15 1864
Basecat - Thanks Blue Lady.
bluelady-Host - Many attempts at tunneling out of the prison before this escape were thwarted. Quite a few tunnels were dug and filled in. What is kind of amazing to me is that many of the fellows working on tunnels were in groups that worked on more than one tunnel. One time a group tunneling in one area linked up with another group tunneling elsewhere!
bluelady-Host - This particular tunnel was started in a tent that was about two or three rows away from the fence. The men that worked on the tunnel were quite ingenious during their digging. While digging, some of the diggers suffered from lack of air and were not able to dig for long periods of time. During the digging, there was a need to check the progress by measuring the distance left to go without making the guards suspicious.
newyawk - How did they measure bluelady?
bluelady-Host - This particular tunnel was started in a tent that was about two or three rows away from the fence. The men that worked on the tunnel were quite ingenious during their digging. While digging, some of the diggers suffered from lack of air and were not able to dig for long periods of time. During the digging, there was a need to check the progress by measuring the distance left to go without making the guards suspicious.
bluelady-Host - The first thing they needed to do is find out exactly where they were in the digging process. Someone stayed in the tunnel as other men on the ground hammered on a piece of tin all the while talking about making a spoon. This deceived the guard and the man in the tunnel was able to signal when the "spoon makers" were overhead.
bluelady-Host - Measuring was done by tying a thread to a stone and throwing it at the fence. they then recoiled the thread and measured it that way.
bluelady-Host - What the men found out was that they were digging off course and had to adjust. This required digging a hole to the surface and placing a tool through the hole to point out the corrected direction. This hole allowed for ventilation as well. The hole was covered during the day and uncovered while the digging was going on at night. One of the other things they used was an extra shirt one of the men had as a way to carry out dirt. They spread it around the camp in about the same way as Andy Dufresne did in "Shawshank Redemption".
bluelady-Host - Another amazing thing about this escape was the number of men involved. The men escaped around 4:00 in the morning on the 7th and there were 10 of them all together. None of them were recaptured.
bluelady-Host - As I read about their adventure south, a bit of personal interest was anticipated because many of them followed the railroad that goes within about 500 yards from where I presently live. They talked about towns very familiar to me such as Fallbrook, Alba and Canton finding at times sympathetic civilians along the way.
Yankee Woman - Who were they? Did the townspeople help them? Maybe the churches?
Basecat - Bluelady....How did they survive??? Last I checked ..not too many Rebel Supporters in that neck of the woods. bluelady-Host - I did not write their names down and they all didn't travel in a big group of ten. I think they ended up in 4 groups. Some went north to Canada some went directly south and others went south by going west first.
bluelady-Host - Another escape was a bit more hair raising at least to the witness. This one prisoner was able to have another individual place him in a coffin, nail it lightly and place it on top of the pile to go to the cemetery. The prisoners usually did this work so it was easy to find help in gaining access to a coffin. On the way to the cemetery the man simply kicked loose the cover and ran off. Needless to say, the wagon driver was probably scared out of his mind!
newyawk - LOL, did the guy actually escape?
bluelady-Host - In speaking about the burials of the prisoners, you can’t talk about Elmira without mentioning John W Jones. John Jones was a former slave in Leesburg, Va. He escaped with a brother and ended up in Elmira. He gained employment with a church as its sextant. Part of the job of the sextant was to ring the bell in case of fire. Church sextants were given awards for being the first to ring a fire. Jones would rarely lose for he tied the rope near his bed.
bluelady-Host - NY he actually did!
newyawk - bluelady, is Jones the slave who put names on the graves of all the dead POW's?
bluelady-Host - Jones earned the respect of those he served and was allowed to sit in a session of school for a half a year where he learned to write and read. Jones was made sexton of Woodlawn Cemetery when it was first established in 1859. It was natural for the government to see him when there was a need for a burial place for the dead prisoners.
bluelady-Host - Yes NY
bluelady-Host - John Jones kept careful records of each death. He placed individual head boards for each man putting his name, state, unit and rank on the board. Of the prisoners who died at Elmira, only 7 are unknown. This in of itself speaks well of the records that John Jones kept. In 1877, the government took over the care of the National Cemetery, part of which confederates are buried. The cemetery was leveled and seeded. In 1907 marble markers replaced the wooden ones placed there by John W. Jones, escaped slave.
newyawk - bluelady, been a year since I went to the cemetery, isn't there a statue to Jones at the cemetery?
bluelady-Host - One of the things I have done in the past was help prepare our local cemetery for Memorial Day. I took pride in how nice we made the place look and how the people appreciated that their loved ones were buried in such a place. Any person alive who has an ancestor buried in the Confederate cemetery of Woodlawn National Cemetery can have that same assurance today.
Addison Hart - That was great, Bluelady. I must go, Good night! Again, Excellent work!
bluelady-Host - I don't think there was a statue there, I'm not sure. They have marked off his grave site like they did with Twain, Roache and Davis.
newyawk - Ok bluelady, thanks. I've only been to Woodlawn, haven't been to the city cemetery. Maybe this year.
bluelady-Host - The stones are all trimmed and the grass is mowed. The only difference is the shape of the stones, not their care. Some of the graves have small tokens placed there by living relatives. Many come to Elmira bringing with them the native soils of Virginia, Georgia, Mississippi and other confederate states so the dead could lie in rest under "their" soil.
bluelady-Host - I think you may be thinking of the plaque they put in the comfederate cemetery honoring what he did,
newyawk - That's it bluelayd...thanks.
bluelady-Host - I was at Woodlawn this past February. There you will see a plaque that commemorates those both north and south who died in the Sholoah train wreck. Also next to the confederate cemetery is a plaque that honors the man who buried the prisoners. This plaque states that the families of those buried here had the opportunity to have the remains of their loved ones removed to their homes. The families saw the care that was given the burials and the care that was given the cemetery and chose to have the bodies remain at Woodlawn.
Yankee Woman - *applause while standing* That was great! How about having more planned, ks? Once a week? Every 2 weeks?
newyawk - To go with bluelady saying how soil has been brought from southern states...on May 5th and 6th 2001 there is a CIvil War reenactment at Newtown Indian Battlefield off of Rt. 17. It is one of the finest small reenactments in New York state, if not the country. There is a candlelight tour on Saturday night. Lincoln, Lee, Davis, Twain, etc. will all be present. On Sunday morning at 9 am(I believe) there is a service at Woodlawn National Cemetery. Some Confederates bring native soil and lay it on the graves of the brave men who died at Elmira. Just a plug for the reenactment. Many thanks to bluelady for letting me hehe
bluelady-Host - Thus ends the story of Elmira. What was stated here are the facts as I read them from different sources. I invite you all to come up with sources of your own to either support or refute what was given here. I thank you all for your patience and your attention.
zoe - bluelady, that was very very enjoyable.
lvTraveller - Bluelady that was WONDERFUL! very well done! thank you so much for your efforts!
Tecumseh - Bravo! author! encore! bravissimo! Ole!
Roaadhog - It was a lively discussion!
Tecumseh - VIVE DU BLUELADY!
CWgal - That was great bluelady..what I say of it. I will read it when Henry gets it posted...well done my friend!
Basecat - Standing Ovation to BlueLady from the Garden State. Well done....
ks-Moderator - Thank you, bluelady. Very well done (and interesting).
Roaadhog - Good job blue lady.
PvtBigelow - I havent been here for the whole thing but ... very interesting bluelady.
bluelady-Host - Thank you all!