JR - Pt. 1, "The Missouri State Guard - Who Were They, What Were They, and Why Did They Fight!"
JR - Tonight, we will set up the political situation in 1860 Missouri, and look at how and why the MSG came into being.
JR - And who it was composed of, and how it was organized. Pt. 2 will follow in about two weeks.
JR - And here we go...
Aldie - This is General Sterling Price's command isn't it JR?
JR - oh, BTW, though this came out as somwhat of a lecture format, please participate. It will help a lot.
JR - Yes, it is, Aldie, and we will get to that now.
JR - Under the blazing sun of Aug. 10, 1861, the men of Totten's Battery gazed down the slopes of "Bloody Hill" waiting for the lull in the battle of Wilson's Creek to end. Their enemy, approaching through the tall grass, was in a long line two ranks deep. Some of the enemy wore grey uniforms and some blue, while still others were clothed in homemade outfits. Most of the men marching up the hill were in civilian clothes. Many had pieces of red cloth tied or sewn to their sleeves as a crude form of identification. Most regiments bore dark blue flags with the seal of the state of Missouri. While some units also displayed the stars and bars of the Confederacy, at least two carried the stars and stripes of the USA.
JR - The Missouri State Guard was the militia guaranteed to Missourans under the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. Created by the Missouri legislature on May 11, 1861, the guardsmen swore allegiance to their state and were only authorized to carry the Missouri flag.
JR - Their commander, Maj. Gen. Sterling Price, initially pledged to defend the state against all incursions, whether from the North or the South. Most of the State Guard's officers and men favored secession, but by no means were all its members Confederate sympathizers.
Basecat - Quick point on Wilson's Creek....as JR dutifully noted...n such things as uniforms that we have all come to know of in later battles.... Remember also...that this occurred less then one month after first Manassas
scarlet - With Missouri choosing to be "neutral" it was smack in the niddle of all sorts of really violent an dwarring factions, was it not JR, as seen even there with the differendt flags?
JR - Conditions in Missouri were confusing and often contradictory, producing a civil war within the Civil War, almost a war within the state on a smaller scale than the overall war. What do we know about the political situation in Missouri, and what may have helped contribute to make things so confusing
Aldie - Divided loyalties residing in the state itself.
JR - scarlet, you have got a big part of it.
scarlet - The Missouri Compromise to dteremine the slavery issue and balance out Congrtess?
Aldie - Missouri's wish to remain nuetral during the conflict made the state a deadly "No Man's Land."
scarlet - The border conflicts beetween those for slavery and the abolisitionists, the raids by the likes of Quantrill and red legs will add to the confusion
BW - So Price was a STATE officer and not a Confederate...at least at first?
JR - Quite true, Aldie. You may be in favor of secession, while your neighbors or friends on the other hand are unionists, and tension between friends and neighbors, and in many cases even in the same families would be high. This happened everywhere, but seemed to be very bitter and very divisive in MO.
Basecat - Missouri was a tempest in a teapot....actually was a slave state....and thus why the emotions were so high there....and in St. Louis....one of the only Arsenals in that part of the country.
JR - Yes, BW, as was the entire MSG. It was not until later that the guard would serve the Confederate forces.
JR - During the first months of the war, the State Guard was a major strategic factor in the Trans-Missippi theatre. From its ranks came such notables as Jo Shelby, Sterling Price and John Marmaduke, as well as those known to possess a more violent streak, such as William Clarke Quantrill and Cole Younger.
Hildy - It might help to point out that things had been extremely tense and even deadly along the KS MO border since 1855
JR - So we are all on the same page, what states constituted the Trans-Missippi and why do so many think that this area of the war is not as important as the other major battles, most notably those in the Eastern Theatre
Aldie - Good point Hildy
Basecat - Hildy...Good point....
Aldie - Missouri, Louisiana, Texas, Arkansas, and Oklahoma.
JR - This is true, Hildy, and would have been discussed more in depth in the other discussion I had planned, but I was not brave enough to tread on the issue of slavery, and the KS-Mo controversies.
Hildy - The federal government in 1861 certainly didn't consider Missouri or Kentucky for that matter unimportant.
BW - Texas, Arkansas, and Missouri come to mind...and "Indian Territory", present day Oklahoma...
Aldie - They are cut off by the Mississippi River and if severed a great part of the Confederacy is thus out of the war.
Basecat - JR...At that time of the War..was the most important factor of the struggle IMHO...Most of the fighting that took place in that area was all of the fighting that occurred.
scarlet - Basically, those states were seen as the frontier and not as "civilized" as the east, they were having their troubles with Indians along with all the other conflicts that were affecting the east, the railroads were making new problems and solving others, and news traveled much slower throughout that part of the territories JR, so that nay military action form there would take longer to reach the newspapers of the east, even with the newer methods of communication which were opening up
BW - Important for supplies, namely food and grain...the "hog and hominy" as Lincoln called it...
JR - Battles in the Trans-Miss Theatre did not have the numbers or the complex military movements as did the battles in the other theatres. While a battle in the east may have 150,000, a Trans-Miss fight may only have 5,00, or even less. yet, these smaller actions occurred often, and were very hard on the civilian population and very bloody. CoB has called the trans-Miss theatre "The Forgotten War," and with good reason. In the east, it is barely even mentioned, and few think anything important happened 'over there.'
JR - The Missouri State Guard in itself is a microcosm of the entire political crisis in the state of Missouri, and in a small way, is a reflection of the choices forced on the citizens of a border state who were caught in an out-of-control struggle that most would have been only too happy to avoid.
Hildy - The trans-mississippi battles were small but notable, many times for their violence.
scarlet - One would think that since that part of the territories was so important as far as food and or certain sulies, the conflict inthe area would be seen as important if not more so thatn the engagements of the east, I bleieve, it has alot to do with the news coverage recieved by the battles in the east, they were constantly in the forefront of the people's thoughts and minds
Basecat - Another point to add....was even more burtal out there...as friend fought friends..and family fought family...
Aldie - Personally, and unfortunately that's almost true for the entire war in the west. Everyone can follow the war in Virginia from start to finish but the average person gets lost in Tennessee and places out west.
BW - What was the role of the Indians? Didn't some form alliances with the Confederacy, while others fought for the Union?
shari - Why do you suppose they were so much more violent? Due to the tenseness of MO in general?
JR - Very good, scarlet. the press and the media coverage. who would want to travel out there and see what's going on when there is so much going on right here in Va. Sad, but true. just as today's biased media puts its own slant on things, I'm sure such was true then as well.
Aldie - The Civil War was fought like a chess game...he who captures the enemy capitol wins the game.
CoB - old scores die a long death.
scarlet - BW, many of the cherokees, did join witht the confederacy if I recall
Aldie - If we killed all the reporters I swear there would be news from hell before breakfast!
CoB - Mat i interject a comment JR?
scarlet - Cob, I believe some of those old sores are still presetnt today!
JR - I think that covers it, shari. tensions were high, and sometimes anger and rage won out because things seemed so much more personal. most of the fighting in Missouri was Missouran against Missouran, not people from opposing states invading or defending their homeland.
Aldie - Stand Waitie
JR - Certainly, CoB.
Hildy - There was relatively good coverage of the west in Harpers at least, it wasn't completely ignored.
Bill NT - Aldie, but probably not very accurate
Basecat - Shari...From the reading I have done...war out there was more personal...and as Hildy rightly pointed out...the CW had been fought here since the mid 1850's
Hildy - Having grown up along the Mo Kan border I can tell you that many of the old hatreds still exist although the people involved may not know where they started.
scarlet - Hildy, the politicians were concerned with the populations of the east and how they viewed their political calls, those in the fronteir were seen almost as England saw the colonists, sure they are there and they suply us with necessary items ,but dont' waaste our resources on tryin to protect them and or defend them
Aldie - So it was a breeding ground for your Quantrill's and such
BW - Wasn't it also due to the fact that there were few professional soldiers in that theatre...most of the leaders were volunteer officers and guerrilla's, and they fought a more violent style than the "paper collar" easterners...
CoB - Case i point. Here in my county of Bollinger, Dallas was the county seat with very southern ties, however in in the surounding area there were 3 other towns with German polulation that were strong union ties. All within a 40 mile radius
JR - The members of the Guard served without pay and only minimal logistical support. Caught between fire and neglect, the men soldiered on with courage and fortitude, and in many ways, defied the extreme odds that were stacked against them.
JR - The members of the Guard served without pay and only minimal logistical support. Caught between fire and neglect, the men soldiered on with courage and fortitude, and in many ways, defied the extreme odds that were stacked against them.
scarlet - The same was true of Texas Cob, the town where my mom's family settled, was very pro Union, they were German settler's and told at one point by Confederate troops passing throught aht they would join the Confederacy or suffer mightly for not soing so, they remained loyal to the union and suffered
Aldie - Missouri was a haven for renegades and desperados as well wasn't it JR?
scarlet - The folks that lived in those border states ahd long before learned guerilla tactics to survive off the land and survive with the Indians!
Hildy - The lack of pay and support contributed to the fact that the MSG peaked by about December of 1861, many later joined the Confederacy but many just went home.
CoB - These renegades and Deseradoes that you refer to wher label so by the Unio
BW - Where does Josey Wales fit in all this?
JR - A true appreciation of the MSG must begin with an understanding of the complex events which brought it into being. These factors affected bothe the Guard's legal status and the motivations of those who served.
Hildy - Missouri is called the " Mother of outlaws " for that reason....I say Texas is the illegitimate father.
JR - I think that type of talk, Aldie, is merely a case of the winner writes the history. There were all types of folks inMissouri, and many did what they did because of what was done to them and there families by the same Federal gov't. that was supposed to protect them.
Basecat - Mizzou and Kansas are probably the first instances of both sides of the National Debate at that time...of hiring professional "soldiers" to get involved in the dispute....
JR - Missouri was a slave state before the 1860 election. In spite of this, the majority of its voting men avoided extremes by endorsing Stephen Douglas for president. Any ideas why this was so
Aldie - Because Douglas was the moderate Democrat.
Hildy - To understand what happened in Missouri I think we have to understand the fractured state government and the mishandling of affairs in St. Louis by the Feds
BW - Douglas was seen as a moderate, compromise candidate perhaps...and Missourans were sick of bloodshed and fighting, and maybe they wanted to avoid it further?
Basecat - Popular Sovereignty JR??? What Douglas was all about.
JR - African-Americans made up slightly over only 10% of the population, and very few whites owned slaves. Most Missourans shared a southern heritage.
Aldie - JR is getting into reasons as to why I seriously doubt the true nature of that war was over slavery.
BW - The railroad idea didn't hurt either...didn't Douglas want it to go south through Missouri? That must have gained him some popularity....
JR - Therefore, it wasn't so much a case of preserving slavery, but rather a case of wanting to preserve the way of life that one had become so used to.
Aldie - I.E. you're waging a war all in the name of Constitutional Violations.
Basecat - Aldie....At that time of the War..I agree..
CoB - The Stare Guard was formed under an ideal of Armed Neutrality. The state fought both union and confederate early on in the war
JR - Constitutional violations, and government restrictions and limitations.
Aldie - Hmmm...what changed?
JR - We're getting there, CoBBer!
JR - It was during the 1850's that German and Irish immigrants flooded St. Louis and other northeastern Missouri towns. Ethnic tensions sparked a number of riots, which helped push most of the Germans to the Republican party, while the Irish community remained politically divided.
Basecat - CoB...Sort of like the Swiss..but apt to use firearms....
JR - Hey, CoB, that's alright. You just jump in there anytime you see fit. I'm counting on your expertise in this area.
Aldie - That last part come out of Battle Cry For Freedom by chance?
JR - When Abraham Lincoln won the 1860 election and seven Southern states left the Union, Missourans were deeply divided over a proper course of action.
JR - The Governor of Missouri was a fifty-four year old Kentucky native, and was a prosperous businessman who had served in the state legislature from 1836-1854. There was no doubt in the mind of Gov. Jackson. In fact, it was his endorsement of Douglas that helped him win the Governor's office in 1860.
Hildy - Sidenote JR, many of the German immigrants were refugees from the civil wars in Europe and resented what they saw as Southern troublemaking.
CoB - That's right BC
JR - An interesting point, Hildy.
JR - After taking office the following Spring, Jackson worked to add Missouri to the Confederacy, but there was much resistance to overcome. The state legislature at the time was pro-Union, and a state convention to consider secession rejected it in March.
WuzReb - A sidenote about Missouri's reputation for outlaws.... The war in MO did not end in 1865. It was neighbor against neighbor, too often, and feuds and hard feelings lasted for generations. For every story of a burned out Confederate family, its mirror is found on the Union side. A very sad state of affairs...
Basecat - CoB...One more question....how was Mizou divided....Northern part anti- slavery...Southern part Pro slavery...or a mixed bag
JR - After taking office the following Spring, Jackson worked to add Missouri to the Confederacy, but there was much resistance to overcome. The state legislature at the time was pro-Union, and a state convention to consider secession rejected it in March.
CoB - Mixed bag through and through BC, North East Missouri ie Hannibal {Mark Twain's Home town} was strongly seecesh The area being called Little Dixie
Hildy - Missouri was not that neatly divided Basecat, most of the slave owning population lived along the Missouri River Valley and most of the south part of the state just wanted to be left alone.
JR - When Ft. Sumter fell, Jackson rejected Lincoln's call for militia forces to fight the South.
JR - "Your requisition...is illegal, unConstitutional, and revolutionary in its object...Not one man will the state of Missouri furnish to carry on such an unholy crusade." wrote Jackson to Lincoln.
CoB - Amen! Gov. Tell like it is.
JR - Jackson began correspondence with President of the Confederacy, Jefferson Davis, and turned a blind eye when secessionists seized the arms at the Missouri depot, a small arsenal near Liberty.
ks-Moderator - Weren't the areas favoring secession those which were more apt to have agricultural interests...like tobacco crops?
Basecat - Hldy...Thanks also....Am trying to compare Mizzouto such states as Maryland and Kentucky...which I find is the wrong thing to do.
WuzReb - Basecat, very much a mixed bag in MO. Not all Southern-minded supported slavery, not all Unionists wanted abolition, and whole counties were split in fractures. Case in point, my kinfolks home county, Lawrence Co., west of Sprinfield MO. Extremely sectionalized, and population dropped by over half, by war's end, on account of both Union and Secessionist families fleeing for safety...
JR - But, Gov. Jackson had a bigger prize in mind. Who knows what it was?
CoB - I believe diabolical was used to describe Lincolns action
Basecat - Saint Louis JR????
JR - CoB or Hildy, can you answer ks' last question?
Hildy - ks, that's right and that is the river valley
JR - Yes, Basecat!
JR - The St. Louis arsenal was the largest depository of arms west of the Mississippi, and it was a prize the governor coveted greatly.
CoB - Jackson was favoring a republic
Hildy - Most of the Missouri River Valley was described as "little dixie"
WuzReb - Ks, not neccesarily.... Slave labor was not as strong a force in MO, as the deeper South. Secession was rather dimly viewed by most MO residents, at first... Until events whirled things beyond recall. MOstly, Missouri wanted to be left alone, neither Confederate, nor having to send troops to fight for the Union. In the beginning, any how...
JR - Jackson's hope of seizing these arms was initially based on the assumption that Brig. Gen. Wm. S. Harney, who commanded the US Army's Dept. of the West from its headquarters in St. Louis, was a Southern sympathizer.
scarlet - ks, most of those states saw the tarifsa nd trade policies being passed to protect northern industry as very detremental to thier way of life, and they felt they were not beign given proer consideration in the Congress
Basecat - CoB....Jackson was trying to do what Texas did after the war with Mexico???
WuzReb - KS, BTW, the strongest ag interests were, as other state, along the MO river, where cotton and such exportables were grown. Sorry, didn't mean to get that mixed up!
JR - Jackson ordered the elements of the Volunteer Militia of Missouri to muster on May 6 for a brief period of training at St. Louis. This force was created by the state legislature in 1859, but it was not the county-based militia existing under the state constitution, but rather a collection of volunteer companies.
Hildy - I have to strongly agree with WuzReb, that "leave us be" attitude was predominant.
CoB - It was a political move BC. in order to align the state with secession
ks-Moderator - Didn't say anything about slave labor, Wuz. Just recalling previous discussions about agricultural interests being reflected in the area's decision as to their loyalties.
WuzReb - Ks, yes, I got that, after I re-read your post. Sorry, guess I was just equating slave labor as often linked to those interests. I was not expressing myself very well, there, was I!
JR - by designating St. Louis as the assembly point, Jackson placed the VMM in an ideal position to seize the arsenal. yet, the Gov's hope were dashed even before the militia gathered. anyone know who or what changed this?
Hildy - Come on JR let's get back to the arsenal, it's just about to get exciting.
57oh - I know very little about the War west of the river! Will listen and learn.
WuzReb - Natty Lyon happened.....?
Basecat - JR...LOL...Harney was replaced by Natty Lyon...
Rockeur - JR The south invaded Kentucky??
CoB - He was relieved and Lyon put in charge with the arsnel moved across the river
JR - The Basecat gets the prize this time!
Hildy - A new federal military presence in the City.
JR - Harney was called east temporarily, leaving Capt. Nathaniel Lyon in charge of the arsenal. Lyon was an ardent patriot and an extreme opponent to both slavery and secession.
JR - He shipped most of the arms to Illinois for safety. He then fortified the arsenal and began enlisting regiments of Federal volunteers, a right he did not have, because this power was reserved by the Constitution for Congress.
JR - By the first week of May, Lyon had approx. 6,000 men under arms, the majority being German-Americans, who were relative newcomers to the state.
scarlet - LOL, since when did the rights reserved by the Constitution count J?
JR - That, my dear scarlet, seems to be what this whole thing is really about, now, isn't it?
CoB - And did not speak english
WuzReb - Thus enter the tern, "D@mn Dutch!"
JR - Brig. Gen. Daniel Frost commanded the VMM, who were set up at "Camp Jackson", on the outskirts of St. Louis Although the stars and stripes flew over the camp, many of the volunteer companies openly displayed the flag of the Confederacy.
JR - The force was supplemented by two artillery pieces from Baton Rouge, but the total force was less than 800 men, far too few to threaten the arsenal. The volunteers drilled without incident. Citizens flocked to the camp, and the exercise soon took on a picnic atmosphere, typical of such military musters.
CoB - They flew the Bonnie Blue JR
WuzReb - Didn't some one run up a Confederate flag in or near the camp? Or just the State Guard flag? Or no flag at all, and I'm cornfuzzled....?
JR - The VMM were supposed to break camp on May 11, but Lyon decided that men with such overt Confederate sympathies should be punished.
Hildy - You don't suppose there was any thunbnosing going on there do you?
WuzReb - OOpps, sorry, I now see CoB and JR's post re; flags...
Rockeur - [X] <---battle flag for Wuzreb
JR - Some sources say he even scouted Camp Jackson disguised as a woman. No small feat considering he had a fiery red beard.
WuzReb - That's my boy Natty....
JR - On May 10, he led his men on a surprise march and surrounded Camp Jackson. Outnumbered and unprepared, Frost was forced to surrender. After disarming Frost's men, Lyon paraded them as prisoners through the streets of St. Louis. Does anyone know what the result of this was?
Hildy - So what's wrong with women with firey red beards...don't let my wife hear that.
WuzReb - Yeah, a riot, shots fired, and I am sorry that I can't quote the number of dead and wounded, in the Camp Jackson affair...
JR - This march provoked a riot, however. Confederate sympathizers lined the streets, first hurling insults, and then rocks and bottles at Lyon's "Dutchmen." When one or more people started shooting, Lyon's men returned fire. Before Lyon could restore order, more than 100 St. Louis citizens became casualties.
Hildy - can't get a break, Wuz is quick.
WuzReb - If I recall, was it hurled names and rocks, etc., let to someone shooting, and then Natty's troops opened fire?
Rockeur - ROFL Hildy
ks-Moderator - *copying discussion for Hildy's wife* Oops, sorry, that shouldn't be here...
JR - The twenty-seven dead included 5 children, and the tragedy became known as the Camp Jackson Massacre. Wm. T. Sherman was passing through at the time and witnessed the entire event.
57oh - Riots.
WuzReb - Hildy, LOL, I don't know as much as JR and CoB, but I had kin in MO during the War, too...
JR - Lyon held Frost's men overnight, then paroled them. Although the Federal volunteers acted at first in self-defense and suffered a dozen casualties of their own, the incident evoked a storm of criticism. The secessionist cause in Missouri received a major boost.
Hildy - There was a local bearded haberdasher in that crowd of citizens who later gained some fame, anyone know who that might be?
JR - Newspapers played up the incident, and panic gripped St. Louis. While thousands of Confederate sympathizers fled the city, others sought retribution against the German-American population, and at least three people were killed during several days of ethnic violence.
ks-Moderator - The book I have at hand says that in the midst of the rock throwing, dirt clods, and such that a drunken man fired a concealed weapon, Wuz...
WuzReb - ... John B. Stetson? LOL, I can't remember....
WuzReb - Ks, thank you for czeching that. Could not recall for sure...
JR - Although the majority of Missouri's state legislators opposed secession, they responded by passing a bill on May 11th which recognized the state's county militia under a new title -
JR - *Drum Roll, Please!*
CoB - Sam Grant?
JR - "The Missouri State Guard."
WuzReb - *drums rolling......*
CoB - {his wife was from St. Louis}
Basecat - Just an aside to what JR mentioned about Sherman....was walking throught the streets with his son when the firin started....and Sherman threw his kid to the ground and was his shield...IIRC...same son who died when visiting is Dad at Vicksburg
WuzReb - Huzzah for the MSG! Root hog or die, and all that stuff!
JR - This and other recently passed legislation gave Gov. Jackson extraordinary power. He was given $30,000 to spend at his discretion for the state's defense. He also was authorized to seize railroads and telegraph lines within the state, establish foundries to manufacture munitions, and dispatch commissioners to maintain friendly relations with the Native American tribes to the West.
WuzReb - Sherman had a son who died? Of what?
Hildy - That's the rumor I heard CoB...I got company so I'll be checking in from time to time but I have to take care of the few freinds I have left.
JR - The structure of the new Missouri State Guard was quite ordinary. The governor was its commander-in-chief. He was assisted by a personal staff and a Military Board, which was to draw up rules and regulations and oversee the Guard's administration.
Basecat - Wuz..Typhoid fever...IIRC...
scarlet - Woah, talk about power in the hands of one, what corruption that could lead too
Dameron - Wuzreb, Willy Sherman died in the Gayoso Hotel in Memphis of a fever contracted at Vicksburg.
JR - In times of "insurrection, invasion, or war" the governor could appoint a Major General to command all forces in the field. The state was divided into nine districts, and the troops were assigned to numbered divisions. Thus, "First Division, MSG" was a geographical designation, and did not denote the number of troops in the the command.
WuzReb - Base, okay.... Must have been awful to happen....
JR - Each division was commanded by a governor-appointed brigadier general, who was responsible for enrolling members and organizing them into military units. After a minimum of 24 companies were organized, the soldiers were to elect a brigadier general to replace the one appointed by the governor.
JR - Each division was to maintain infantry, cavalry and artillery, raised at company level and organized into battalions and regiments. Regulations allowed them to combine under the most senior officer present, so a single battalion could contain elements from all three branches of service. It was a highly flexible command command structure, but also a very simple one.
JR - All physically fit males between the ages of 18 and 45 were subject to service in the Guard. Enlistees served for seven years, during which time they could be called up for both annual training and emergency service.
CoB - 1st Division thus enter Merriwether "Jeff" Thompson, The Swamp Fox
JR - and his "Swamp rats!"
JR - If field service exceeded six months, the commander-in-chief was to apportion troops so that all nine divisions contributed equally.
JR - Volunteers were desired, but division commanders also had the power to draft. Persons drafted could avoid service by paying $150. Interestingly, volunteers under age 21 required written parental permission, but at the same time, they could be drafted without parental consent.
scarlet - lOL< sounds like the government during Nam JR with the draftees
JR - Thus, we see that political chaos in Missouri, and divided loyalties led to extreme, and often violent acts. The Missouri State Guard was born in response to the political crisis gripping the state, and was initially formed to secure the state of Missouri from invasion in an effort to see that Missouri remained neutral. As we will see in Pt. 2, however, things would change drastically in a short period of time. While fighting shortages of food, clothing and a lack of proper arms and ammunition, the MSG would go on to becoming a highly efficient fighting force, and many previously unknown men would rise to extreme prominence, and sometimes even notoriety.
Basecat - JR...Total amount of men that signed u for the original MSG???
scarlet - LOL< speak of the devil, and Natty Lyons!
JR - I was afraid someone would ask that question!
JR - CoB, any ideas of numbers
57oh - A bunch Base!
WuzReb - As I recall, the pre-war numbers of the MSG were quite small, a few thousand.... But not sure...
newyawk - JR Thank you very much for the discussion. Ks you copied this?
CoB - I can tell you that from this county there and I have records of 492
JR - Well, I shall see if I can answer that question in Pt. 2. Who knows, maybe the info. is out there somewhere.
WuzReb - But after the Camp Jackson affair, the numbers exploded! Even then, not all were in favor of seccession, though. Missourians fought to protect Missouri.
JR - Any questions, comments, or suggestions ?
Hildy - Desperately searching for the answer to that one but I just remembered I loaned my copy of "In Deadly Earnest" and I don't have it in my head.
CoB - The population was 8000 at the time
Basecat - LOL...Sorry JR...
scarlet - thanks so much JR, that was very informative and interesting
JR - If not, I say that's all folks. Pt. 2 in about 2 weeks.
Hildy - JR, just a side note, my wife and i own the building in which Ol' Pat had his HQ during the battle of Lexington and some of the MSG had their camp in my horse pasture.
WuzReb - JR, yeah, when do we get Part 2?
57oh - JR, good job! I enjoyed and learned from your discussion!
JR - We will see the guard in battle, mourn the death of Natty Lyon (NOT!), and watch the Guard develop from a state-based force in Missouri, to a vital part of Confederate forces across the river. Also, Quick bios of Price, Shelby, Thompson, et al.
CoB - Another comment that might be interjected being that enlistment was for 6 months. and that some units never joined confederate service and remained in Missouri. Jeff Thompson was never listed as a confederate though he answered to the confederate high command
Xan - JR, Natty scouted Camp Jackson in the carriage of, and wearing the clothes of, the mother of somebody I forget, possibly Frank Blair. It was mourning garb including veil, which took care of the beard problem.